Comments on: Ruby is the R in Rails http://www.clevegibbon.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/ruby-is-the-r-in-rails/ Stuff you pick up on the way... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:03:28 +0200 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: cleve http://www.clevegibbon.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/ruby-is-the-r-in-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-287 cleve Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:01:34 +0000 http://www.clevegibbon.com/wordpress/archives/106#comment-287 I see where your coming from and agree in part. I think all the Ruby implementations that target specific integration needs are useful but you only need one of each. Ruby.NET will probably become a distraction and fold under the might of IronRuby. As for Rubinius and MRI/YARV, the competition will yield better results in the long run for all. One of the results being the RubySpec that will be much better with input from multiple implementation teams. I don't put much value behind a spec that has a single implementation to its name. As for Maglev, that's deliberately trying to make some waves but until I've touched it, I'll reserve comment. As for the Microsoft No Choice, No Brainer - its appealing for a while, but that's simply not a place I'd like live, only visit! I like options. I see where your coming from and agree in part. I think all the Ruby implementations that target specific integration needs are useful but you only need one of each. Ruby.NET will probably become a distraction and fold under the might of IronRuby.

As for Rubinius and MRI/YARV, the competition will yield better results in the long run for all. One of the results being the RubySpec that will be much better with input from multiple implementation teams. I don’t put much value behind a spec that has a single implementation to its name.

As for Maglev, that’s deliberately trying to make some waves but until I’ve touched it, I’ll reserve comment.

As for the Microsoft No Choice, No Brainer – its appealing for a while, but that’s simply not a place I’d like live, only visit! I like options.

]]> By: Sebastian Zarzycki http://www.clevegibbon.com/wordpress/2008/06/11/ruby-is-the-r-in-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-286 Sebastian Zarzycki Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:37:01 +0000 http://www.clevegibbon.com/wordpress/archives/106#comment-286 The problem with Ruby right now is (as I see it) old "chicken or egg" dillemma. Ruby isn't going enterprise, because enteprise has to be ensured that everything will go well. But if Ruby will not be embraced by enterprise, there is a risk that it will never evolve since there are lots of smart folks on enterprise side and their voice and input is crucial (read : solve scalability) for further evolution. I don't want to be mean, but when I see ruby 1.9 changes, I can't help thinking that there is someone there behind Matz, who loves php hacking and forcing him to spend time arguing whether they should use sign : or => or # for this and that. As if Ruby syntax isn't wicked enough. I was amazed looking at Maglev presentation, it's really hard to believe that it could be so fast. And it's not just talk about how to speed up things but very essential point from where ruby/rails can ride into enteprise hands and be used safely and successfuly. I'm just not sure that I like the scattered effort to improve Ruby. I hate this in Java community, this pretty much killed Java for me and made tedious, boring and overly complicated. Now I see the very same in Ruby, but from different angle - now we have handful of language implementations. I can understand competition, but soon we will hit 10 ruby implementations - that's insane. Why can't those people just gather and think together? Now, when I'm going to build application, BEFORE I even go into framework/orm system pick, I will spend another n hours on choosing the very implementation. Sigh. Unity may have its own quirks, but, c'mon, ASP.NET is way easier. And it's not because of api or framework or even language. It's because you don't have to spend 50% of your development time on making choices and praying to Sparta gods that those choices will turn out to be good ones. And microsoft can just focus on improving one single united environment to make it easier for developers. "Show me the money" pretty much nailed this. Developers have to be attracted more. Managers have to be attracted more. Maybe we should try again with this "development 10 times faster" lines and make them actually true for large apps... The problem with Ruby right now is (as I see it) old “chicken or egg” dillemma. Ruby isn’t going enterprise, because enteprise has to be ensured that everything will go well. But if Ruby will not be embraced by enterprise, there is a risk that it will never evolve since there are lots of smart folks on enterprise side and their voice and input is crucial (read : solve scalability) for further evolution. I don’t want to be mean, but when I see ruby 1.9 changes, I can’t help thinking that there is someone there behind Matz, who loves php hacking and forcing him to spend time arguing whether they should use sign : or => or # for this and that. As if Ruby syntax isn’t wicked enough.

I was amazed looking at Maglev presentation, it’s really hard to believe that it could be so fast. And it’s not just talk about how to speed up things but very essential point from where ruby/rails can ride into enteprise hands and be used safely and successfuly. I’m just not sure that I like the scattered effort to improve Ruby. I hate this in Java community, this pretty much killed Java for me and made tedious, boring and overly complicated. Now I see the very same in Ruby, but from different angle – now we have handful of language implementations. I can understand competition, but soon we will hit 10 ruby implementations – that’s insane. Why can’t those people just gather and think together? Now, when I’m going to build application, BEFORE I even go into framework/orm system pick, I will spend another n hours on choosing the very implementation. Sigh. Unity may have its own quirks, but, c’mon, ASP.NET is way easier. And it’s not because of api or framework or even language. It’s because you don’t have to spend 50% of your development time on making choices and praying to Sparta gods that those choices will turn out to be good ones. And microsoft can just focus on improving one single united environment to make it easier for developers.

“Show me the money” pretty much nailed this. Developers have to be attracted more. Managers have to be attracted more. Maybe we should try again with this “development 10 times faster” lines and make them actually true for large apps…

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